ITBP jawans injured in China border shootout
Nirmalya Banerjee & Prabin Kalita, TNN 15 September 2009, 12:36am IST
KOLKATA/GUWAHATI: Simmering tensions along the mountainous frontier with China appear to have become serious with a revelation that two jawans of
the Indo-Tibetan Border Police, the sentinel force along the Line of Actual Control (LAC), were injured in bullets fired from the Chinese side. ( Watch Video )
The firing in an area identified as Kerang in northern Sikkim took place a fortnight ago but has been kept under wraps. It was confirmed on Monday by a highly-placed intelligence source, who is not authorised to give information to the media. ITBP officials at its headquarters in New Delhi declined to confirm the incident.
It was the first incidents where bullets have been fired since the landmark 1996 Sino-India agreement in which both sides pledged not to open fire, no matter what the provocation, as a part of confidence-building measures.
Sources cite this as yet another instance of China's maintaining pressure on the 2.1 sq km area of `Finger Tip' in northern Sikkim. Last year, China had sent a vehicle-mounted patrol into this area, penetrating 1 km into Indian territory. The Kerang shootout prompted an unscheduled border personnel meeting on August 30.
Also last week, the entire situation along the LAC was reviewed in a war game by the Eastern Command top brass in Kolkata's Fort William, Eastern Command HQs, in the presence of Army chief General Deepak Kapoor.
Violations aren't new but have rarely involved casualties. What is alarming is the report of shooting along the LAC which has remained peaceful for decades since the Chinese invasion of 1962.
At Asaphila in Upper Subansiri Division of Arunachal Pradesh, for instance, a contingent of 22 Chinese troops had intercepted an armed Indian patrol of two policemen, three porters and five Special Service Bureau personnel in June 2003, disarmed them and returned them to the Indian Army.
In contrast, the Kerang incident could be a significant and dangerous deviation from the practice of talks before bullets.
Despite ceremonial border personnel meetings (BPMs) at Nathu La in Sikkim and Bum La and Kibithu in Arunachal, Chinese troops continue to violate the LAC with brazen regularity.
According to Army sources, People's Liberation Army patrols have been sighted crossing over the LAC six times since January this year -- four times in Upper Subansiri district in June and July, and twice in Lohit district in January. A Chinese post continues to occupy Sumdorong Chu valley since 1986.
The situation has been worsened by the fact that the border is unguarded at some places in Arunachal Pradesh, mainly due to inhospitable terrain marked by high mountains and hostile weather throughout the year. At some locations there are no field units on either side. There is no deployment of Indian forces in at least one district, the backward Kurung Kumey (Tawang's neighbour).
Such forays by Chinese troops have left the population near the LAC insecure. "Chinese patrols encroached into my district in June and July,'' said Upper Subansiri deputy commissioner H G Shalla.
Western Arunachal Pradesh MP Takam Sanjay -- whose constituency has many areas where Chinese incursions have happened -- said the local people felt unsafe. "People of Arunachal do not want to face 1962 all over again,'' he said. He has taken up with the Centre the issue of securing the border. "It seems, somewhere we have lost involvement.''
Indian troops on the LAC have even sighted Chinese grazers and fishermen crossing over and pushed them back, say sources. Bhutan, too, faces the same problem. People from Tibet cross over in search of medicinal herbs.
According to Army sources, there is no PLA build-up across the border, but what worries the Indian top brass is the definite edge the Chinese have in terms of infrastructure, particularly road communication. Because of this, they can move reinforcements to the LAC at a short notice, which is difficult for India. In Asaphila, the last road on the Indian side ends 50 km away from the LAC.
Political leaders from Arunachal, like former MP Kiren Rijiju, have been vocal against the Indian policy of not developing infrastructure on the border for fear the Chinese would use them in case of a war. He has described this as a "defensive policy''. Sanjay, however, said that with prime minister Manmohan Singh granting Rs 24,000 crore to Arunachal for infrastructure development, the situation is set to change.
One of the most important projects is the construction of the trans-Arunachal highway, connecting Tawang with Changlang district. It is learnt that the Cabinet committee on infrastructure has given approval for bidding for two sections of this highway.
Indie oskarżają Chiny o wprowadzanie na swoje terytorium żołnierzy w cywilnych przebraniach:
'Chinese Army entering Indian territory in civil dress'
ANI
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Published on Mon 14th Sep 2009 18:08:11
Updated On Mon 14th Sep 2009 18:31:08
New Delhi, September 14:
Uttarakhand Chief Minister Ramesh Pokhriyal on Monday demanded the formation of a new Mountain Security Force on the lines of the Coast Guards to maintain security on borders along the mountains.
Pokhriayal said: "I demand the formation of a Mountain Security Force for guarding the borders along the mountains, on the lines of the Coast Guard."
His demand came days after he revealed that the Uttarakhand Government had mentioned that the Chinese were entering Indian territory in the state.
"I mentioned this matter with Prime Minister during the Chief Minister's conference on internal security," Pokhriyal said.
"The Chinese are taking advantage of our traditional trade relations with the Tibet, and they have entered Indian territory in civil dress again and again, using the traditional trade routes linked with Tibet," Pokhriyal said.
Uttarakhand shares a 2,75 kilometre-long mountain border with China and 250 kilometre long border with Nepal.
India has two exclusive border guarding forces - the Sashastra Seema Bal (SSB) and the Indo-Tibet Border Police (ITBP) for the security along the Indo-China and Indo- Tibet borders respectively.
On Sunday Pokhriyal, quoting reports from locals in Rimkhim in Chamoli district, of Uttarakhand said the Chinese had entered the state on September 5 and left behind biscuit packet wrappers and cigarettes.
Indie przebazowują eskadrę Su-30 do baz przy granicy z Chinami:
Sukhoi Su-30s formally inducted in northeast
2009-06-15 19:30:00
/New Delhi, June 15 (IANS) Four front-line Sukhoi combat jets of the Indian Air Force (IAF) were formally inducted in the sensitive northeastern region Monday as part of a strategic deployment of advanced assets close to the Chinese border, defence officials said.
The four multi-role strike Su-30MKI fighters will be based at Tezpur, about 185 km north of Assam's main city of Guwahati, with the strength of the squadron gradually being raised to 18 aircraft.
'Due to bad weather, there was no flypast of the Sukhois, although there was a small symbolic ceremony to welcome the jets and crew at the Tezpur base,' an IAF official said.
Air Marshal S.K. Bhan, air officer commanding-in-chief of the Eastern Air Command, presided over the induction ceremony.
The decision to deploy the Su-30MKIs, the most potent fighter in the IAF inventory, follows repeated instances of Chinese incursions in the northeastern state of Arunachal Pradesh in the last few years.
The Tezpur base is within striking distance of the India-China border along Arunachal Pradesh.
According to the defence ministry, there have been about 270 violations by Chinese soldiers in the western, middle and eastern sectors of the border in 2008, while 60 have been reported so far this year.
Beijing had in 2003 given up its territorial claim over the Indian state of Sikkim but still maintains that vast stretches of Arunachal Pradesh belong to China.
The mountainous state of Arunachal Pradesh shares a 1,030-km (650-mile) unfenced border with China. This frontier is defined by the McMahon Line, a notional boundary that is now known as the Line of Actual Control (LAC). China has never recognised the McMahon Line, and claims 90,000 sq km or almost all of Arunachal Pradesh. India also accuses China of occupying 8,000 sq km (14,670 square miles) in Kashmir.
India and China fought a bitter border war in 1962, with Chinese troops advancing deep into what was then called the North East Frontier Agency (NEFA) and inflicting heavy casualties on Indian troops.
Capable of carrying nuclear weapons and tailor-made for Indian specifications, the Russian designed Su-30MKI being manufactured under license by state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL). The aircraft was inducted into the IAF in 1997.
The IAF currently operates five squadrons of the Su-30s, with three stationed at Lohegaon in Pune and two at Bareilly. Each squadron comprises 18-20 aircraft.
The IAF plans to increase the strength of its Su-30 fleet to nearly 200 jets over the next five years.
The Tezpur airfield was constructed in 1942, during the Second World War. It lies between Bhutan, Tibet, China, Myanmar and Bangladesh. Ever since its inception, it has been one of the most active bases in northeast from where a variety of fixed and rotary wing aircraft have been operating.
As of now, five bases in the eastern and northeastern parts of the country, including Tezpur, Chabua and Jorhat in Assam, Panagarh in West Bengal and Purnea in Bihar, are due for upgrades.
Dla przypomnienia-nie byłby to pierwszy poważny konflikt obu krajów:
Wojna chińsko–indyjska 20 października – 20 listopada 1962 r., zwana też sino–indyjskim konfliktem granicznym - konflikt zbrojny między Chińską Republika Ludową a Indiami. Przyczyną konfliktu był spór graniczny o dwa niewielkie obszary: Aksai Chin i tzw. NEFA. Pierwsze poważne działania wojenne rozpoczęła strona chińska 20 października 1962 roku, atakując siły indyjskie, stacjonujące na tzw. Linii McMahona. Choć walki toczono na dwóch frontach, to należy zaznaczyć, że głównym celem strony chińskiej było Aksai Chin. Wojna zakończyła się po miesiącu militarnym zwycięstwem armii chińskiej i przyłączeniem Aksai Chin do ChRL.(...)
A obecne napięcia mają miejsce właśnie w tym rejonie co blisko 50 lat temu-z tą różnicą że teraz obydwa kraje posiadają broń atomową.
* 15,000 troops stationed in Manipur to counter threat from Chinese influence in Myanmar
By Iftikhar Gilani
NEW DELHI: Is a repeat of the 1962 Sino-India war looming large? Though played down by the Indian government for diplomatic reasons, 30,000 additional troops – with weaponry and artillery support – are being rushed to the country’s northeast region bordering China. Indian troops deployed on the disputed border with China are also being reinforced, following the second incursion in the Ladakh region in the last eight months.
More worrisome for India is the Chinese claim on Arunachal Pradesh and repeated incursions into border villages and reports of a Chinese military exercise involving 50,000 troops in Tibet. A highway built by China parallel to the border, with approach roads intruding into Arunachal Pradesh, is also a matter of concern as it can be used by the Chinese Army to move quickly – with artillery – to capture parts of the state. Not taking these developments lightly, the Indian Army is preparing for any eventuality, putting the troops deployed on the border on operational alert and increasing vigilance in Arunachal Pradesh. A full mountain division of about 15,000 troops, under the command of three brigadiers, is being stationed in Arunachal Pradesh in areas where border fortifications may be weak. This division would be attached to the 4 Corps unit, based out of Tezpur in Assam.
Growing influence: A second division of the same strength is being deployed in Manipur and attached to the 3 Corps, based out of Dimapur in Nagaland. This division would be placed on the Bangladesh-India-Myanmar axis to counter any threat from China’s growing influence in Myanmar. Since raising new divisions takes a lot of time, sources said the Indian Army is pulling officers and troops out of peace-time postings from across the country to form the two divisions quickly.
Defence experts in India are already warning the government that China might resort to a 1962 war-style gamble, though maybe not on the same scale, to divert attention from rising inflation in the country. Writing in Defence Today, a strategic journal, editor Bharat Verma claimed that China might make the move as early as October. According to government sources, such a perceived threat has been already discussed by the army’s top brass, following which the decision to fortify all positions on the Sino-India border was taken.
Miejmy nadzieję że tak właśnie jest,ale jeżeli wrócisz do pierwszej wiadomosci w pierwszym poście tego tematu to zobaczysz że Chinom na dzień dzisiajszy też nie trzeba wiele do przejścia w stan wojny...
Władze stanu Arunachal poprosiły rząd federalny w Delhi o działanie w celu powstrzymania chińskich żądań terytorialnych.Mimo wojny w roku 1962 oraz incydentów w 1986 roku Chiny nigdy nie uznały przynależności stanu do Indii i nadal uważają większość jego terenu za swoją własność:
Arunachal asks New Delhi to act against Chinese claims
IANS
TimePublished on Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 11:03 in India section
Itanagar: The government in the frontier state of Arunachal Pradesh on Tuesday urged New Delhi to act tough on Chinese claims over the state and snub Beijing's opposition to Dalai Lama's proposed visit to the region.
"Chinese claims over Arunachal Pradesh are simply baseless and not correct. Arunachal Pradesh is an integral part of India and would continue to do so," said Arunachal Pradesh Chief Minister Dorjee Khandu.
Beijing in 2003 gave up its territorial claim over the Indian state of Sikkim but still holds on to its stand that nearly all of Arunachal Pradesh belongs to it.
The mountainous state of Arunachal Pradesh shares a 1,030 km unfenced border with China.
"The Government of India should be more assertive and make its stand on Arunachal Pradesh very clear to China. New Delhi needs to make a bold statement about frequent Chinese claims," said a ruling Congress party MP from Arunachal Pradesh, Takam Sanjay.
The reaction of Arunachal Pradesh lawmakers comes at a time when there are allegations of a Chinese intrusion in Ladakh in Jammu and Kashmir, besides similar apprehensions from the Chief Minister of Uttarakhand state that shares a border with China.
China last week raked up a controversy asking India not to allow Tibetan spiritual leader Dalai Lama to visit Arunachal Pradesh in November.
Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesperson Jiang Yu said, "We firmly oppose Dalai visiting the so-called 'Arunachal Pradesh'."
The Dalai Lama is scheduled to visit the Tawang monastery in Arunachal Pradesh, bordering China, besides capital Itanagar.
"China has no business to interfere with the Dalai Lama's proposed visit to Arunachal Pradesh. We welcome the Dalai Lama's visit and will ensure that his trip is successful," Sanjay said.
"Let it be known to Beijing that Dalai Lama is a spiritual leader of the world and can visit any part of the world without Beijing's nod."
It is through Tawang in Arunachal Pradesh that in 1959 the Dalai Lama escaped the Chinese to enter India.
The India-China border along Arunachal Pradesh is separated by the McMahon Line, an imaginary border now known as the Line of Actual Control.
India and China fought a border war in 1962, with Chinese troops advancing deep into Arunachal Pradesh and inflicting heavy casualties on Indian troops.
The border dispute with China was inherited by India from British colonial rulers, who hosted a 1914 conference with the Tibetan and Chinese governments that set the border in what is now Arunachal Pradesh.
China has never recognised the 1914 McMahon Line and claims 90,000 sq km, nearly all of Arunachal Pradesh. India also accuses China of occupying 8,000 sq km in Kashmir.
After 1962, tensions flared again in 1986 with Indian and Chinese forces clashing in Sumdorong Chu valley of Arunachal. Chinese troops reportedly built a helipad in the valley leading to fresh skirmishes along the borders.
India’s Internet Connection to China Inexplicably Cut
Sept. 15 – Indian internet connections to servers in China appear to have been cut with no ability for Indian web users to access websites hosted in China.
The breach also appears to have affected corporate email with Indian employees are unable to connect to their colleagues and friends in China. Users in India have had to use services based overseas like Gmail to connect to China.
The reason for the disruption is currently unknown. It may be related to heightening border tensions between China and India that led to two Indian military personnel being shot and wounded after coming under fire from Chinese troops in the Indian-controlled Kerang area of Sikkim around two weeks ago.
On Monday, U.S. officials led by White House Adviser Valerie Jarrett, met with the Dalai Lama in northern India. During the two hour meeting, the officials and the spiritual leader talked about the problems of the Tibetan people and ways on how this can be resolved, reported Reuters.
The Dalai Lama is slated to tour the United States and Canada this month for a series of religious teachings and will probably meet U.S. President Obama then.
“She (Jarrett) came to brief His Holiness on President Obama’s administration’s focus on Tibet,” Tenzin Taklha, an aide to the Dalai Lama, told Reuters.
“His Holiness conveyed to Ms. Jarrett the issues that he would like President Obama to take when he visits China,” the Dalai Lama’s office said in a statement. “His Holiness… was hopeful that during his presidency (Obama) the Tibetan people can see progress in the resolution of their problem.”
Mr. Obama is also scheduled to visit China this year for talks in hopes of improving economic and diplomatic ties.
Coś dużo tych wieści jak na jeden dzień gdyby chodziło tylko o prężenie muskułów...i obym się mylił.
Teraz atak robi się naprawdę szybko i w jak największej tajemnicy, żeby nie było można ustalić winnego tego zamieszania(to dla publiki) i żeby zaskoczyć wroga(który zazwyczaj wcale nie jest zaskoczony). Popis tego mieliśmy w Gruzji. Także te oficjalne przesuwania wojsk itp. przez Indie właściwe wskazują winowajce ewentualnej wojny a to chinom się kompletnie nie opłaca.
China denies incursions by its troops into Indian territory across the Line of Actual Control. But NDTV has exclusive information that China is actively training and arming insurgent groups in Manipur and Nagaland.
On video, an alleged Manipur militant is interrogated. Intelligence officials say he confirms that China is training Manipuri militants.
Sources say at least 400 cadre of a Manipuri insurgent group, the People's Liberation Army (PLA), have been undergoing arms training in China's Yunnan province for the last year. Ronie, alias Robindro, a self-styled major of the Manipur PLA, brags "16 platoon went to China recently, some of them have come back."
The insurgents travel to Yunnan via Myanmar. Arms for these militants also come via this route. And China's role doesn't stop at training militants.
Issac Chisi Swu, chairman of the NSCN, a Naga insurgent group, which is still upholding a ceasefire with India, has been hosted in Beijing and Kunming this May. His main officer in charge of acquiring weapons has also been twice to China.
According to intelligence operatives, a Chinese company supplies machine guns and hi-tech communication equipment to both Naga and Manipuri militants. Anti-aircraft guns have also been acquired from China by these groups, which are currently in Myanmar.
The arrested Manipuri militant has told interrogators that the PLA and other Manipuri groups are being armed and trained by Chinese experts in Myanmar. This is apparently in preparation for a major showdown with Indian security forces next year.
Arunachal villagers: 'Presently Chinese are in our village'
Zopag News Network
Published on Thu 17th Sep 2009 07:50:58
Updated On Thu 17th Sep 2009 12:32:46
Changla Gaon (Arunachal Prades:
Villagers living along the India-China border in Arunachal Pradesh said that Chinese incursions were a result of lack of border demarcation.
Indian media had reported that two soldiers of the Indo-Tibetan Border Police (ITBP) were injured in firing from across the border on the Line of Actual Control in Arunachal Pradesh, part of which China claims as its territory.
India on Tuesday, however, denied that two of its border guards were injured in firing by Chinese forces.
"They (Chinese troops) come here and Indian government is helpless…we have protection from Indian government but since the areas are not demarcated therefore it is difficult to make out," said Soya Ama, a resident of Changla Gaon village in Anjaw district of the state.
Apprehending more Chinese incursions, another villager appealed to Indian government to advance troops from their village to borders.
"We appeal to Indian government and army that they should advance towards border from our locality. Presently they are in our village and we face lot of problem because of that. We face lot of threat from China," said Anjita Kri, another resident.
China claims about 90,000 sq km of Arunachal Pradesh along their border as part of its territory.
India and China fought a short war in 1962 and, despite burgeoning trade in recent years, mistrust remains. Both sides jostle for resources and influence as they seek a global role.
This year, the two countries have faced off at multi-lateral forums, including Chinese objections to a $60 million Asian Development Bank loan for a project in Arunachal Pradesh.
Indian media have repeatedly reported "incursions" by Chinese soldiers patrolling the 3,500-km (2,200-mile) border, disputed at various stretches.
In response, India has begun modernising its border roads and moved a squadron of strike aircraft close to the China border. Arunachal Governor J.J. Singh said in June up to 30,000 new troops would be deployed in the area, which has a substantial Buddhist population.
Maoist communism may be as dead as Mao Zedong himself in China, but in India it is alive and in brutal good health.
Maoists, often called Naxalites for the town of Naxalbari where peasants took up arms against oppressive landowners in 1967, operate in 20 of Indian’s 28 states.
In many of India’s poorest areas, especially its forests, the Maoists have established parallel administrations, collecting taxes, running crude court systems and dispensing rough justice, often through the barrel of a gun.
Naxalite guerrillas have been in an almost constant state of war with government police, special army units and official armed vigilantes for over 20 years. Thousands of people have died in those decades and nearly 600 people have been killed in over 1,400 incidents this year alone.
But despite the sustained anti-insurgent campaign by government forces, the Maoist grip on poor, rural India has been growing year-by-year.
They now operate "People’s Governments" in a swathe of territory across central India sometimes called the "Compact Revolutionary Zone" or the "Naxal Belt."
There are somewhat startling estimates with which many officials agree that the Maoists control a much higher percentage of India than the 11 per cent of neighbouring Pakistan said to be controlled by the Taliban.
Last week Prime Minister Manmohan Singh said the government is losing the battle against the Maoists.
"I have constantly held that in many ways, left-wing extremism poses perhaps the gravest internal security threat our country faces," Singh told a conference of police chiefs in New Delhi.
Singh said the Maoists appear to have a growing appeal among many segments of Indian society, especially the rural poor, but also tribal communities and left-leaning urban intelligentsia.
The state of the insurrection rapidly became a South Asian regional issue last week when Home Affairs MinisterPalaniappan Chidambaram, who is responsible for internal security forces, added that the Maoists have safe havens in neighbouring states and easy access to sophisticated weapons in Southeast Asia.
There were immediate expressions of outrage from neighbouring Nepal, where local Maoists have become part of government after waging a successful civil war.
Chidambaram undoubtedly included Nepal in his comments, but he was also pointing to India’s troubled northeastern region where dozens of separatist groups operate and where many people have close ethnic ties to Tibet, China and Burma.
In many ways the rise of Maoism in India echoes unrest in China where last year there were over 70,000 "mass incidents" involving over 1,000 people.
In both India and China these acts of rebellion are by the legion of the poor who have not benefited from their nations’ economic advances and whose scant resources are being pillaged by those with power.
The difference is that in China the Communist Party has expended every effort to ensure that no nationwide or even regional organization that could marshal and direct the unrest is allowed to come into being.
But India is a democracy with a long tradition of left-wing and communist parties.
The Maoists have purposefully operated outside the broad church of India’s parliamentary politics and in some states they have been declared terrorist organizations.
Maoist leaders deny they are terrorists. "We’re fighting a people’s war," one Naxalite leader told a local journalist recently. "We want the proletariat to rule, not imperialistic governments."
While few analysts believe the Maoists could attract enough support to overthrow the government as they did in Nepal, there are many who see justice in their cause.
Even Singh, during his speech last week, acknowledged that the problem is as much about poverty as it is security.
Writing in a Catholic newspaper last week, Jesuit priest Ambrose Pinto said that at the heart of the problem is a battle between two models of development. Prime Minister Singh and mainstream national and state administrations are pursuing a "neo-liberal" model which encourages foreign investment and welcomes multi-national corporations. This approach, says Pinto, has seen tens of thousands of local and tribal people displaced to make way for such things as steel mills, power plants, mine developments and special economic zones. The global recession has caused havoc with this approach, spurred unemployment, misery and impoverishment, andprovided recruits for the Maoists, he said.
"It is this model that the Naxals and Maoists are opposing," wrote Pinto. "They are asking for a local model of development that would not destroy the life and livelihood of the people."
Pinto says the Maoists and Naxalites have a legitimate claim to a share of the profits from the resources of their land.
The first step towards meeting this just cause and ending the insurrection, Pinto says, is to reform the Forest Land Act to give tribal peoples clear ownership of the land on which they live and a real claim to a proper share of profits from enterprises in those areas.
This, he says, should be a prelude to a broader program of land reform that would give local people protection against the looting of their legitimate resources by multinational and influential Indian corporations.
A po której stronie mój drogi @chemicloo opowie się król Edzio i ile dywizji będzie w stanie wystawić? _________________ Stagflacja to połączenie inflacji i hiperinflacji ~ specjalista od ekonomii, filantrop, debil, @one1
Dołączył: 18 Sie 2009 Posty: 1301
Post zebrał 0.000 mBTC Podarowałeś BTC
Wysłany: 20:11, 13 Lut '20
Temat postu:
Zrozum to wreszcie -królestwo to coś więcej niż twoje śmieszne dywizje...
Ach, jak się forumowy pokemon podnieca siłą fizyczną, jak się upaja złudną przewagą militarną jaką mu daje republika polska nad Królestwem Polskim, nasz sebix forumowy zawsze z silniejszym.. Argument siły najlepiej podchodzi chazarczykowi, to jest to co nasz sebix zawsze rozumie najlepiej... ... No i po co się chować Azoren za tym całym pseudointelektualnym ambicjonerstwem, którym tu nieudolnie szpanujesz na forum?? Daj se chłopie siana, bo tylko się notorycznie ośmieszasz, to nie na twoje nerwy..
Autorytet Stalina też bardzo mu zaimponował, skoro (nie pierwszy raz) parafrazuje tutaj słynne już mundrości wodza czerwonej armii "ile dywizji ma papież"... Ach jak się puszy! A jednak! -Papież może mieć znaczny wpływ na politykę światową i świadomość wielu ludzi, czerwony stalinowski pomiocie. Swoją drogą.. ciekawe ileż to dywizji mógłby wystawić twój kochany republikański idol -prezydencina Juda? Stanowiska Pierwszego Sekretarza Zjednoczonej Partii już nie ma, a papieski urząd jak sobie istniał tak spokojnie nadal istnieje.. Jest skałą, która trwa od całych wieków, ...a gdzie się podział ten wapienny tron, na którym siedział wąsacz? Czy to jego "imperium" przetrwało choćby sto lat?? Coś te jego dzielne dywizje nie bardzo mu pomogły kiedy zdychał w swoich szczochach i rzygowinach..
Śmieszny chazarski klaunie- mądry mądrością swą, wprost od stalina zapożyczoną, zabawiasz mnie jak jaki szwoleżer który na chwilę zsiadł ze swego konika aby zatańczyć krakowiaka, i nadymasz się niczym strach na wróble --z dywizjami wróbli na ramionach, postawiony, chyba przez jakiegoś dowcipnisia, na.... psim polu
...
_________________ w_Królestwie_TV http://www.metrykakoronna.org.pl/
#zdejmijMaske i #wyjdźZchaty
Mylisz się, ja to właśnie zawsze po stronie słabszego
Cytat:
Argument siły najlepiej podchodzi chazarczykowi
Nie, nie podchodzi, ale z drugiej strony kwiecisty chłopczyku, siła też jest czasem potrzebna (tym bardziej słabemu). Świat to nie sielanka, gdy trafisz do więzienia @chemicloo, to nie powiesz kolegom z celi żeby cie nie gwałcili bo ty nie uznajesz przemocy... Oni cie po prostu zgwałcą, tak czy siak, w dupie mając twój pacyfizm. Gdy obcy kraj spuści na twoje miasto bomby, nikt nie będzie słuchał twojego pierdolenia o tym że Królestwo Lechii to "królestwo serc" i nie potrzebuje dywizji, ani nie uznaje rozwiązań siłowych
Jesteś głupi i naiwny, jak 9-letnie dziecko idące za obcym panem do furgonetki, kuszony obietnicą cukierków
Cytat:
Autorytet Stalina też bardzo mu zaimponował, skoro (nie pierwszy raz) parafrazuje tutaj słynne już mundrości wodza czerwonej armii "ile dywizji ma papież"
Rozumiesz pajacu co to jest ironia?
Cytat:
Papież może mieć znaczny wpływ na politykę światową i świadomość wielu ludzi,
Oczywiście że tak, i tutaj się z tobą zgodzę. Watykan jest może nawet równie potężny jak USA, a już na pewno tak jak Izrael. W końcu od wieków Watykan to istna kloaka ciemności, od stuleci rozsiewający po świecie mroczną pajęczynę intryg, spisków, korupcji, układów i brutalnych metod kontroli populacji czy elit poszczególnych krajów. Tak mroczna siła, bez wątpienia musi być potężna i tutaj masz rację.
Cytat:
czerwony stalinowski pomiocie
I tutaj wyłazi twoja hipokryzja, bo jeszcze do niedawna sam otwarcie utożsamiałeś się jako stalinista, a teraz kłamliwie przyczepiasz tą łatkę innym, jakby próbując się uwolnić od swojej wstydliwej przeszłości... Ale nie bój się, my pamiętamy
Cytat:
Swoją drogą.. ciekawe ileż to dywizji mógłby wystawić twój kochany republikański idol -prezydencina Juda?
Ja Państwa PISlamskiego nie lubię równie mocno jak ty, a może nawet i bardziej, tak więc znowu pudłu. Insynuujesz mi coś, z czym nie mam nic wspólnego.
_________________ Stagflacja to połączenie inflacji i hiperinflacji ~ specjalista od ekonomii, filantrop, debil, @one1
"ile dywizji ma papież"... Ach jak się puszy! A jednak! -Papież może mieć znaczny wpływ na politykę światową i świadomość wielu ludzi
Papież może i tak, ale król Lechii to nie papież. Papież nie ma dywizji, ale ma wpływy, a król Lechii nie ma ani dywizji, ani wpływów. Lesio to może mieć wpływ na gór 2-3 tuziny swoich wyznawców i wiernych popleczników, przeważnie znudzonych życiem facetów z niższej klasy średniej, szukających jakiejś "egzotycznej ideologii" która mogła by nadać sens ich staraniom. Nie macie wpływu na nic. Wasza siła przebicia i wpływy polityczne są tak małe, że nie wywalczyli byście nawet zmiany szarego, papieru toaletowego na miękki, wielowarstwowy, papier zapachowy w szaletach miejskich w Wałbrzychu.
_________________ Stagflacja to połączenie inflacji i hiperinflacji ~ specjalista od ekonomii, filantrop, debil, @one1
Dołączył: 18 Sie 2009 Posty: 1301
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Wysłany: 23:55, 14 Lut '20
Temat postu:
chazarski intelektualista napisał:
Rozumiesz pajacu co to jest ironia? Rolling Eyes
...oczywiście że rozumiem ironię, którą stosował Stalin -a ty ją po nim z lubością powtarzasz... widać bardzo ci podpasowała
Cytat:
a król Lechii nie ma ani dywizji, ani wpływów.
Nie od razu Kraków zbudowano.
Cytat:
Nie macie wpływu na nic.
Widzę że bardzo się tym faktem medialnym podniecasz.. Tak jak mówiłem: Azoren zawsze z "wpływowymi ludźmi"
Cytat:
Wasza siła przebicia i wpływy polityczne są tak małe,
...ach! Jak się puszy! ...On pod rękę z polskimi dywizjami, i dyplomatołkami republiki — ciaputowiczami Une mają wpływy!!
_________________ w_Królestwie_TV http://www.metrykakoronna.org.pl/
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... No i po co się chować Azoren za tym całym pseudointelektualnym ambicjonerstwem, którym tu nieudolnie szpanujesz na forum?? Daj se chłopie siana, bo tylko się notorycznie ośmieszasz, to nie na twoje nerwy..
Stanowiska Pierwszego Sekretarza Zjednoczonej Partii już nie ma, a papieski urząd jak sobie istniał tak spokojnie nadal istnieje.. Jest skałą, która trwa od całych wieków, ...a gdzie się podział ten wapienny tron, na którym siedział wąsacz? Czy to jego "imperium" przetrwało choćby sto lat?? Coś te jego dzielne dywizje nie bardzo mu pomogły kiedy zdychał w swoich szczochach i rzygowinach.. 
